Is this the revolution I've been waiting for ?

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Permalink Reply by Gavin Healy on June 8, 2008 at 12:08am

Hi Geoff,

It all adds up .

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Permalink Reply by Geoff Cox on June 8, 2008 at 6:22am

Did you look at this web site - you'll fall off your chair laughing !

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Permalink Reply by James Edwards on July 5, 2008 at 3:00pm

Hi Geoff,

I too consider myself a revolutionary socialist, but I think its worrying that most of my compatriots merely wish for one ruling class to be replaced with another and for the State to be provided with even MORE powers. I guess its because THEY feel that they're qualified to become the new ruling class.

I think that there needs to be a seperate category for discussing governance, where we can discuss alternative governance methods and political structures that will allow us to adapt to the changing world ahead.

I'm really sympathetic toward the governance structure of the Emilia Romagna region of Italy which has freely elected a communist government into power consequtively for 50 years.

"To see that there are other options, you have to travel to the richest city in Italy: Bologna -- Communist Bologna (six years ago the Italian Communist Party renamed itself the Democratic Party of the Left, or P.D.S.). Polls confirm it as the favorite city of all Italians. The historic center, with its soaring medieval towers, Renaissance palazzos and Baroque porticoes, is among the best-preserved in Italy."
http://www.uwcc.wisc.edu/info/bologna.html

If people are dismissive of the claim that we have a ruling class in New Zealand read these links by prominent New Zealand academics. One an economist and the other a political science lecturer. I came to realise just how centralized the power structures of this country are, after reading Deirdre Ken'ts Healthy Money, Healthy Planet. Even worse the volume of a citizen's voice and the likelihood of whether you are heeded is filtered and determined by "access" to the Halls of Power. This must change if we are going to make it through the trials and tribulations ahead.

http://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/?p=652

http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2008/02/who-runs-new-ze.ht...

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Permalink Reply by Geoff Cox on July 5, 2008 at 5:27pm

Is this it - the place I mean. I'd quite like to explore those issues too but wonder how far we might get considering many have tried before and not got too far beyond 'utopia'.

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Permalink Reply by Samuel Campbell on July 5, 2008 at 6:20pm

I rather think that we're either headed for despotism or with foresight and design a utopia of some sorts.

I consider myself a bit of an anarcho-red, and this is the closest i've seen to any sort of revolution that is positive, grassroots and nod controlled. A decentralised socialised system.

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Permalink Reply by James Edwards on July 6, 2008 at 7:26pm

"Is this it - the place I mean. I'd quite like to explore those issues too but wonder how far we might get considering many have tried before and not got too far beyond 'utopia'."

Hi Geoff,

I guess for now it will have to do. At least until we can convince the administraters to create a new subject category to discuss governance issues.

I'm not really recommending that a whole new "utopian" society should be created, but merely to suggest that its important, if not essential to at least discuss the potential of developing a more participatory and devolved approach to decisionmaking, which involve those who are immediately effected by the decisions made by those in authority.

On the domestic front, I think that the process of the RMA could be used as basis to develop a framework, which allows people not only have a say on what they DON'T want to happen in their area, to extend to what they DO want done.

I think the Future Melbourne wiki project could perhaps provide an inspiration that for the technological infrastructure of the new model of decisionmaking that would allow people to have a more participatory and inclusive approach to making decisions in future.

Hi Sam,

"I rather think that we're either headed for despotism or with foresight and design a utopia of some sorts."

That statement encapsulates both my worst fear and greatest hope.
I think that if the worst fears about climate change and peak oil come to fruition, people may actually either demand or at least welcome the security and assurance provided by a "benelovent" despot who can assure them that they will be saved if only they obey him.

"I consider myself a bit of an anarcho-red, and this is the closest i've seen to any sort of revolution that is positive, grassroots and nod controlled. A decentralised socialised system."
I'm an anarchist too, though a mutualist, rather an an anarcho-communist like yourself. I'd say they'd be pretty rare here as their mainly confined to France and the United States.

At least you're not a Stalinist or a Trotskyites, as I'm almost convinced that they're agent provacateurs used by the capitalist ruling class internationally to disrupt true grassroots political actions, such as in Spain during the Civil War against the fascists, in the 1968 Paris Uprising, and here in New Zealand, they allowed the Employment Contracts Act to gut the power of New Zealand's unions, because they opposed the planned general strike.

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Permalink Reply by Samuel Campbell on July 6, 2008 at 10:40pm

"I'm an anarchist too, though a mutualist, rather an an anarcho-communist like yourself. I'd say they'd be pretty rare here as their mainly confined to France and the United States."

Communism, syndicalism, mutualism, anything without a ruling central authority. Based on mutual beneficial free associations between groups. I'm not limiting myself to any one thing, but I do think that being green as well means i've got a bit of techno-positive green anarchism in there as well.


"At least you're not a Stalinist or a Trotskyites, as I'm almost convinced that they're agent provacateurs used by the capitalist ruling class internationally to disrupt true grassroots political actions, such as in Spain during the Civil War against the fascists, in the 1968 Paris Uprising, and here in New Zealand, they allowed the Employment Contracts Act to gut the power of New Zealand's unions, because they opposed the planned general strike."

By the very centralised power structure of traditional communism i think it sets themselves up to failure as a truely socialistic society. 'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely' . Whether knowingly or not, the power concentration of communism leads to a quest for more power. Then you're no better than the capitalist imperialists you wanted to overthrow, replacing one oligarchy for another.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Howard on July 6, 2008 at 8:07pm

Hi folks
I guess I now consider myself a sort of eco-communitarian. I no longer think either socialism or capitalism will last. The only future is ecologically based, and around community, just like the indigenous cultures. They're been waiting for us to realise this for 6000 to 10000 years. Time to live lightly and co-operatively on the land, or not alt all. The 6th Mass Extinction is well underway...change or prepare to join it!

"The sign of an advanced culture is a light ecological footprint" Dr Bill Rees, creator of the Ecological Footprint concept. As I see all around me a lack of a light ecological footprint, I don't think we live in an advanced culture!

Regards
Ted
Nelson

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Permalink Reply by Genevieve on July 17, 2008 at 3:17pm

I've been wondering the same thing and I think it is, I certainly hope it is. I agree, what a challenge to keep all this huge energy moving in positive directions. Are you down in Kaiwaka? I'm up in Whangarei and I might see you at the meeting in Whg city tonight, are you coming up and are there others from your area coming up? Meeting you all would be my main incentive to travel in to town for the meeting.

Cheers, Genevieve

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Permalink Reply by James Edwards on August 18, 2008 at 11:52am

Hi guys,

These two mottos from the Industrial Workers of the World and Buckminster Fuller encapsulate my belief as to the necessity of societal and political change and the method by which it should be achieved, that by creating alternative political, social, and economic infrastructures, which would serve as a viable and credible alternative to the conventional ones, and ideally would eventually supplant the then obsolete conventional system. I believe that the Transition Towns movement could be a central "hub" for people to create these alternative structures within the current system, with the eventual intended purspose of replacing them as they're likely to naturally become obsolete in our changing world anyway so we NEED to be ready for that to happen with those structures already in place. Otherwise it'll all end up in chaos.

"By organizing industrially we are forming the structure of the new society within the shell of the old."
Industrial Workers of the World
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete" - Buckminster Fuller

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Permalink Reply by James Samuel on August 18, 2008 at 8:30pm

If you haven't yet come across Derrick Jensen, you may want to watch this. It's a video of him presenting some great challenges to people who are ready to ask the hard questions. Hang in there past the intro..

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